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Episode C11: Moloch
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Cockroach Boy



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 7143
Location: Dancing with the Mara

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I have with Egrorian isn't just the fact that he's such a mincing stereotype but that his persuit of Vila is like something from a bad 70's sitcom. It's as embarassing as Mister Humphries from Are You Being Served and actually succedes in being even less funny.

I suppose it's doubly disappointing because in 'Rescue', B7 had given us such a great bisexual vilain in Dorian.
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boroboy



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right - the mincing is cringeworthy. In its defence though, the whole show was getting pretty camp by this point. It's just strange to superimpose this campness on what is a pretty bleak/terrifying episode like Orbit.
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Cockroach Boy



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the tone and script are at odds. Played differently Egrorian could have been an interesting character.

It's strange that Season 4 which is unremmitingly pessimistic is the one that went most OTT.
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thunda



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1364
Location: Kaldor City

PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of more things:

I don't usually like it when Tarrant bullies Vila,but this time I agree with him.You can't start a mission then when you land on the planet decide to change sides.

"Give her to your men. "-Besides how laughable that sounds coming from a two million year advanced being that is capable of acting as a computer,it doesn't seem to make much sense.In the case of Poola,it's to Moloch's best interest to have the Liberator intact and the crew land on the planet,so she did him a favor.Since it was Moloch that "sees all,hears all,and occasionally says something" ,he was the one that alerted the troopers to Poola's actions.Why? In the case of Servalan,it would make more sense to download all of her knowledge of the Federation into the particle scanner and for him to use it to his advantage.
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Janov Seldon



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 1687
Location: There - but I like it here

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boroboy, I'm perfectly aware of the themse the series brings up but violence towards women is something I feel very strongly about - I know women who've been in violent relationships, women who've been assaulted and women who've been raped.

That's why I don't want to see this nasty little piece again.

I'm also aware of the fact that the majority of the perpetrators get their comeuppance but it doesn't make it any easier watching it. I wrote a piece of fanfic last year and two of the characters are psycotics, one of whom gets off on torturing people. I found it hard to write despite the fact that they were going to be killed later.
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Cockroach Boy



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As part of my 'Give Steed another Chance' mission, I'm gonna watch this again. I found one or two things to like about Kairos, so I'm hoping I will with this one too.

I'll reward myself by following it with Death Watch and Mr Pacey in tight silver trousers!!
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BLAKESCREWE



Joined: 16 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just so awful to sit through -a ghastly script and appallingly acted!
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Cockroach Boy



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta agree with you there BC. This one is a real stinker. The amount of info dumping is unbelivable and the ending is just plain stupid.

Avon is wrong about the Sardoans main problem being the criminals. I think they would be a bit more worried about the fact that they are going to be invaded again, this time by Servalan!

The only really enjoyable aspect to Moloch is the banter between Servalan and Vila. Love the way she says 'Oh give me the gun, I'll see to it'!!

Grose and Lector are too ridiculous to be taken as a serious threat.

Doran is a fairly interesting character. Although his dialogue suggests he has commited sexual assaults on women, he doesn't take the obvious opportunities offered either by the Sardoan women or Servalan. In fact he seems more concerned about Vila and looks as though he is about to burst into tears when he can't find him. Perhap's Doran' mysogony stems from an inability to deal with own sexuality? His line about not liking women may have a double meaning.

Vila is very dense in this one though and frankly I don't blame Tarrant for having a go at him!!
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pylene711
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think that this episode is appallingly acted (bar a small few dudd lies)....nor do I feel that is in any way glamourizing mysogyny...Quite the opposite in fact.
I DO feel that, things as they are at present in this green and pleasant land of ours, it might become all too easy to forget how television in the late 70 s and early 80s presented itself, as a whole.
Treatment of women in shows such as...for example...Tenco....Allo Allo...The Sweeny etc etc
Are they all pieces of 'mysogynistic filth' or whatever the post was.....?
Now I dont wish to offend anyone here so please bare with me....I have also known friends past and present who sadly maintain[ed] abusive relationships both towards male and female friends. Its horrible to witness as a friend and certainly at first hand I am sure.
My concerns though, stem from any serious viewer of today having difficulty in recognizing that episodes such as this, and Power etc, are the writings of someone who wishes to be a PART of the whole 'equality issues' media....allbeit, as it was then, in it's infancy. The Grose and Lecter characters are depicted as the absolute lowest of the low, and any scenes of sexism/mysogany are treated to NO glamour whatsoever, simply accentuating the fact that these Fed thugs are scum, and women's rights/equality are hugely important issues in a functional society. It is due to the fact that these subjects were handled AT ALL, from at least a semi-correct perspective, that things have become, certainly on UK television today, far more mature and in turn, more subtly handled.

I'm certain that you would ALL agree, that in Blakes 7, we saw mass slaughter of men women and chidren, betrayal, violence (towards both male and female characters), torture, corruption and generally unpleasant scenarios. To isolate the bad treatment of certain female characters only, and then to cite them as episode killers is tantamout to deriding the program for the very reasons it was great. I mean...we could have had a very different Blake's 7 without the forementioned atrocities taking place within it.
As an episode, I really like Moloch...Its a fun romp of an episode, not to be taken too seriously, which sees both great banter between servalan and grose, and of course servalan and vila.
I watch this one usually when I'm in a more fi and less sci kind of mood...
as it IS a little silly at times, but in my humble.......not at all bad...I really cant find it in my heart to criticise Steed for his writing in this.....it would show me up for missing the point;-)
peace out
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Cockroach Boy



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Moloch went through quite a hefty re-writing process. It would be interesting to see the original scripts.
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BLAKESCREWE



Joined: 16 May 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant be as bad as the finished version !
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Cockroach Boy



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Servalans Hair



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't as bad as people have said.
Apart from the little muppet with one eye
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boroboy



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cockroach Boy wrote:

Doran is a fairly interesting character. Although his dialogue suggests he has commited sexual assaults on women, he doesn't take the obvious opportunities offered either by the Sardoan women or Servalan. In fact he seems more concerned about Vila and looks as though he is about to burst into tears when he can't find him. Perhap's Doran' mysogony stems from an inability to deal with own sexuality? His line about not liking women may have a double meaning.


So, after nearly ten years of thinking about it, I think you have a great point here. It's not that he doesn't like women, it's who he does like (Vila) that matters!

But the episode is still crap. Poor Sevelan reduced to comedy murder double-act with Vila. However - I love how unaffected Vila is with Servelan, unlike Avon, who she manipulates so easily with her sexuality.
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