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Episode B9: Countdown
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Picard
The Chocolate Eater


Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 2457
Location: On the USS Enterprise 1701-D

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only seen Alien and Aliens and during Aliens I was listening to someone who was heavily critising it, so I'm influenced.
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Picard
The Chocolate Eater


Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 2457
Location: On the USS Enterprise 1701-D

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Little Rascal wrote:

Second ,
I agree again! I couldn't understand why they were seen so rarely in the Original Series they are way COOOOLLL!
Yupp again! The Jem-Hadr are Sub-Zero, Celsius!
BUT MY all-time Fav are the Creatures from the Fluidic Universe. Species 8572 I think they are Called! and the Hero-gians too ! WOW! Love em both!!! They remeind me off the Idirians in Iain M Banks Culrues Series. (Do your-self a fav and read Consider Phlebus and/ or EXCESSION if you haven't already. I think they will "Blow Your Mind" like they did mine. Banks has set the Bar higher than even William Gibson stuggles to match! Read Necro-mancer. He was writing about the Web and Hackers before it was invented! ( W. Gib that is !) When I stumbled on Banks's Conc' Phle' the writing and World I entered, (the Culture Univ') the writing "HIT Me like a Plasma Bolt!!!" To steal a quote! Best ever writer of Serious Sci-Fiction !!!!!!! EVER!!!



Yep will pick up a copy of Necro-mancer from the library tomorow (if they have a copy) but it'll have to wait until I finish 'Barefoot Gen' Which is a manga which is about Gen and his strugle after the Atom bomb drop on hiroshima, fantastic also worth a read.

A bold statement about Banks, I will have to try him out to. I probably have one of his books, one about a Parallel universe I think. I should read it as well.

I need to rewatch the 8472 species one again. It's been so long since I watched VOY. I never thought very much about the aliens in VOY.
3rdly

Quote:

Nope your Right and I bow to your supieror Insight! Indeed the Ferengi would be the Chinese!! ( even though Commander Rikers island likened them to "Yankie Traders" what ever they were/are?). I thought the English and Dutch were the model of Early World Ship-Borne commerce but again, S-T is very US-entric. They did win the 1st WW after all.... cough, splutter!


I think the japanese was a good thought as they export a lot of tech to the rest of the world, but then again the chinise are exporting a lot of essential stuff that is made by the hands of slaves so they just sprung to mind. (I don't think the chisnise exploit everyone, it's just that slave labour happens at lot in the region, whether it be reasonably well off chinise and India or economic super power Japan.

Quote:
Gene Roddenberry was also very influenced by his Time in the US ARMY Air-force. In the original Series he actually designed the Enterprise around the B17 Bomber. A plane that he flew, & dropped Booms on the Nasties! They say you can see the B17 in the Big E's blue-prints. No Toilets or Showers though!
In the Episode that introduced Khan ( I cant remember the name of it) the Space-ship that he used to Escape the Earth, after the 3rd WW, was a modified US Nuclear Submarine. Whether this was just a cost cutting exersice or a Conscious discission is open to debate but the tele- porters definately were. The Animation costs of having a Star ship , or even a Shuttle land on a Planet or Moon was just too expensive. The Teleport opened up all new plot-lines here-too undreampt of. Forget they are techniqually impossible. The Heisenburg uncertianty Principle takes care of that. Iain M banks uses "Displacers" that create a small worm-hole's to do much the same thing, with-out having to Measure, break-down, transmit to a moving object, (all things are in motion 1 way or the other) and then re-assemble in the EXACT way they were measured.


Yeah what you say is probably true again, the teleporters are very cost effective, no wonder they where inhereted by B7 and other shows later.

Quote:

"If you have to take me apart to get there, I dont wanna go!" (a lil' ditti from Red Dwarf). Why I'm telling you all this I dont know, but you seem to be of an E/Inquireing Mind, a trait I admire.


Thankyou! You seem to be a sort of human sponge, so much information! Wow, that's a trait I admire too. (Don't think being a sponge as being degrading, rather think of a life of a sponge as a one where you do stuff to do stuff, just don't think I'm being horrible, I don;t think you're yellow and green)

Quote:

The Bajorans could be any of the small countries that have recently thrown off the Yoke of an Empirical Master... more likely the Tibetians (due mainly to their Religousity. ( i know I'm contadicting myself here, they haven't yet Shuck off the Chinese, but here's hopeing!)!


Hmm... so much suffering over something so basic as freedom and independence.
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Cockroach Boy



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Dancing with the Mara

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm impressed by how far off topic this thread is moving!
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Picard
The Chocolate Eater


Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 2457
Location: On the USS Enterprise 1701-D

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cockroach Boy wrote:
I'm impressed by how far off topic this thread is moving!


It's a good move, but we could link it back to countdown if you had another off the wall theory which also linked it to different countries or something.
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Cockroach Boy



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Dancing with the Mara

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picard wrote:
Cockroach Boy wrote:
I'm impressed by how far off topic this thread is moving!


It's a good move, but we could link it back to countdown if you had another off the wall theory which also linked it to different countries or something.


Now that sounds like a good challenge!
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Little Rascal
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cockroach Boy wrote:
Picard wrote:
Cockroach Boy wrote:
I'm impressed by how far off topic this thread is moving!


It's a good move, but we could link it back to countdown if you had another off the wall theory which also linked it to different countries or something.


Now that sounds like a good challenge!


Apparently, during the COUNT-Down for the Challenger Launch you could see the Faulty O-Ring leaking Rocket fuel ! Back on topic enough 4 You !!!

Thanx for the Compliment P the Chocola-holic. I have been described as a Human Spounge, but never in a good way !
If you cant Poke-fun at your self you have no right to do it to others!
I did think once that the Vulcan-Rommulan's were modelled on the Ancient Greco-Roman Civilizations. The Greeks came first and explored the Philosphy ( invented it actually! ) where-as the Romans were all about Empire. The Rommul's use Roman titles like Preator etc, but I di-gress! . They spoiled that one though by nameing the moon of Cronos REMMUS ! I still think that the Chinese are a better Ferengi model because of the RAMPANT Capitolism in place there now!
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thunda



Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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Location: Kaldor City

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone has touched on this but there's a scene with Blake that I believe defines his character. After Provine is shot and dying, Blake attempts to get information but is rebuked at first. In similar situations Avon used threats(Rumours of Death), Vila used guile(Games), Cally used reason(Dawn of the Gods), Jenna used charm(the Keeper), and Tarrant used camaraderie(Rumours of Death). Blake, however, is different, he used psychology. Blake knows Provine doesn't want to die so he tells him he may be able to save him if he reveals the location of Control. He dies soon after but I don't think Blake had any intention of saving him. He treated Provine like he treated his crew, telling them what they needed to hear in order to get the response he desired.
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boroboy



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thunda - you make a good point about Blake. He is a very good manipulator. But that is probably a good characteristic for the leader of a rebellion who needs to recruit people to a cause. But his is what I like about B7 - the lead character isn't all "goody two-shoes". He is a ruthless manipulator. Even of his closest "friends". Blake does show his experience of revolutions when he makes the remarks about trigger happy soldiers and he says is is a "common pattern" when hearing about how Albion was taken over by the federation.

Other interesting aspects of this story:
- I love that Del Grant staggers after teleporting - it is good to see that it isn't perfect and takes some getting used to. I think I have mentioned this before here but I think that teleportation is dealt with very well in B7. Most people that see it are absolutely amazed! as you would be. And people that travel through it comment on the experience (I think that Sarkoff also makes some sort of remark along the lines of "faster than an automobile, but not as amusing").
- Speaking of Del Grant. I wish we heard from him again. He seemed to be pretty competent - would have really added to the "cause". He would have been a good foil for Blake. He could have taken on the work of physically disrupting the federation while Blake focussed on politics.
- Blake calls Ralli a "girl". Even at the time this was pretty patronizing. Particularly as the script itself takes pains to point out that Ralli does all the real/responsible work while the "boys" do all the planning/thinking/worrying.
- Love Vila's "Oh dear" line when finding out about the bomb. The resignation about "here we go again.." is palpable.
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boroboy



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also I meant to remark on Avon being a technical idiot when he describes the surface temperature being close to absolute zero. Stick to your computer games Avon!

What's baffling is that noone challenges him. Surely an engineer like Blake of an experienced pilot like Jenna would have mercilessly taunted Avon over this basic lack of knowledge. I would have.

On a broader note - it is odd how often Avon is portrayed as a loser/not very bright guy in the show. His computer fraud fails and he gets caught pretty easily. He is fooled by the only love of his life who faked their relationship to manipulate him. He gets basic technical information wrong (see above) and is constantly outsmarted by Servalan (and he allows his physical attraction to her to overwhelm his common sense and it ends up repeatedly endangering him and the crew). He seems to be always over-estimating his own abilities. Classic Dunning-Kruger. (I will now retreat to my bunker )
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meegat39



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="boroboy"]
- Speaking of Del Grant. I wish we heard from him again. He seemed to be pretty competent - would have really added to the "cause". He would have been a good foil for Blake. He could have taken on the work of physically disrupting the federation while Blake focussed on politics.
-quote]

Del Grant is in the whole of the second season of full cast audios produced by Big Finish and he is also in The Armageddon Storm, which is an excellent production, also from Big Finish
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boroboy



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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

meegat39 wrote:


Del Grant is in the whole of the second season of full cast audios produced by Big Finish and he is also in The Armageddon Storm, which is an excellent production, also from Big Finish


Thanks for the info Meegat39. I only have the TV episodes to go on. Are the audio episodes worthwhile? Do they coordinate with the TV episodes and explain why he was never mentioned again (in the TV episodes).
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meegat39



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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boroboy wrote:
meegat39 wrote:


Del Grant is in the whole of the second season of full cast audios produced by Big Finish and he is also in The Armageddon Storm, which is an excellent production, also from Big Finish


Thanks for the info Meegat39. I only have the TV episodes to go on. Are the audio episodes worthwhile? Do they coordinate with the TV episodes and explain why he was never mentioned again (in the TV episodes).


I love the audio episodes! They fit quite well with canon. I can't really remember if it was explained why he was not seen again but The Armageddon Storm is a very good 3 part story (and has won an award) so I would recommend starting there. Incidentally Big Finish have just reduced a lot of the range.
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thunda



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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boroboy wrote:


Other interesting aspects of this story:

Blake calls Ralli a "girl". Even at the time this was pretty patronizing. Particularly as the script itself takes pains to point out that Ralli does all the real/responsible work while the "boys" do all the planning/thinking/worrying.

In the real world Ralli would be the efficient second in command who holds everything together but since this isn't the real world and she's female she can't be treated that way. Below sums up how I feel.

jdarwent wrote:


You can tell it's made in the 70's with the sexism of the early scene:

GRANT [Takes Ralli by the hand] And when you've done that, get this place cleaned up, get a casualty report, and get some Federation prisoners for questioning.

I expected him to ask her to make a cup of tea as well!

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