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Episode A3: Cygnus Alpha
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Cockroach Boy



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turnidus wrote:
As far as I'm concerned 'Liberation' is a load of twaddle where Gan's character is concerned.


I had more of a problem with the way they kept having a go at Michael Keating!!
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Turnidus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cockroach Boy wrote:
Turnidus wrote:
As far as I'm concerned 'Liberation' is a load of twaddle where Gan's character is concerned.


I had more of a problem with the way they kept having a go at Michael Keating!!


Certainly it seemed as if Vila hardly existed in their synopses.
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thunda



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slushprodukt wrote:
According to Liberation...

He is alone on the ship with Jenna, and struggling to break free of the limiter's influence because, due to his personality disorder, he is compelled to attack a vulnerable woman.

Notice he only starts showing signs of instability when the rest of the crew leave (and it starts pretty much as soon as they leave).

That actually does have a sense of logic to it.Just before they teleport down,Blake tells Gan to stay with Jenna,Vila gives Gan a strange look.Also,after Gan tells Jenna about his "woman" and she leaves,the camera focuses on the top of his head.
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Slushprodukt



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. It's unclear how much of a conscious decision Gan has in it all. It seems to me that this is the situation:

1. Gan has a mad compulsion, which he can't control, to attack vulnerable women.

2. The limiter is supposed to cut in when he is alone with a woman, or in a situation where he could attack a woman.

3. The limiter is old, or failing. When Gan is alone with Jenna, it is probably the first time that he has been alone with a woman for years. Ever since his arrest he has been either locked up alone or locked up with lots of other people, so he's never had a chance to attack a woman. Thus, when his natural compulsion to attack Jenna kicks in it does so with extra force. The limiter cuts in, but because it's failing and because Gan's compulsion to attack is so strong, the limiter sends a distress signal to "shut him down", basically to black him out. (These events possibly cause or precipitate the limiter burning out a few episodes later.)

4. Caught between these two powerful influences, Gan has a real headf*** to deal with, and after fighting it for a while he just blacks out.

5. There is also the issue of the brood warriors. This is an additional thing for Gan to deal with. His compulsion to rape/kill Jenna, the limiter counteracting that, and then the increasing threat of being killed by the warriors.

It is unsure (or rather, I am unsure) if Gan has any influence on himself about attacking women. Does he make a conscious decision to do it, or is he just a slave to this impulse? He seems to be a decent, well-meaning guy at heart, so at first glance you'd think he would try to fight against his psychotic impulses but they were too strong and that's why the Federation fitted him with a limiter.

But the Liberation book suggests that actually Gan is very clever. Much cleverer than he appears. He engineers situations where he will be alone with women. I can't remember the details of this. I think the book gives a few examples of incidents in the first series when Gan engineers situations, but I can't remember them just now. If you want, I can dig the book out and have a look.

Incidentally, Chris Boucher has stated that "the Gan subtext" was present when they did the first series. In other words, there is a subtle thing going on with him throughout the first series. But they were told to get rid of it for series 2 because it was deemed too adult. Perhaps that's why he was the first one to be killed off? Boucher/Nation felt that without the subtext, Gan was of much less interest...?
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Cockroach Boy



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slushprodukt wrote:

Incidentally, Chris Boucher has stated that "the Gan subtext" was present when they did the first series. In other words, there is a subtle thing going on with him throughout the first series. But they were told to get rid of it for series 2 because it was deemed too adult. Perhaps that's why he was the first one to be killed off? Boucher/Nation felt that without the subtext, Gan was of much less interest...?


By all accounts Nation wanted to kill of Vila as he disliked Mike Heating's peformance but it Boucher and Maloney thought there was little more that could be done with Gan.
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Turnidus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy all this crap about Gan. I could understand it if he had had the limiter put in because he raped and murdered a woman, but he didn't - he was defending the honour of his woman who was murdered by someone else. So how do we read into this that he is a woman hater and wants to hurt them if left alone with them?

It just doesn't wash with me.
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Cockroach Boy



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turnidus wrote:
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy all this crap about Gan. I could understand it if he had had the limiter put in because he raped and murdered a woman, but he didn't - he was defending the honour of his woman who was murdered by someone else. So how do we read into this that he is a woman hater and wants to hurt them if left alone with them?

It just doesn't wash with me.


I think in part it comes from the fact that Gan was not very consistently written. There are contradictions in his back story and the powers of the limiter from which its possible to find other interpretations.
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Slushprodukt



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turnidus wrote:
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy all this crap about Gan. I could understand it if he had had the limiter put in because he raped and murdered a woman, but he didn't - he was defending the honour of his woman who was murdered by someone else.
How do we know he was defending the honour of his woman who was murdered by someone else? Gan says so. There's nothing to stop it being a complete lie.

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So how do we read into this that he is a woman hater and wants to hurt them if left alone with them?
Because he goes off the rails when left alone with Jenna. And being left alone with Cally in Breakdown clearly doesn't do him any good.

You should read Liberation. It goes into much more detail about this and it holds water. And Boucher has said the Gan subtext was real, so it's not as if the Liberation writers were making it up, they were just defining where and how the Gan subtext crops up.
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Turnidus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slushprodukt wrote:
Turnidus wrote:
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy all this crap about Gan. I could understand it if he had had the limiter put in because he raped and murdered a woman, but he didn't - he was defending the honour of his woman who was murdered by someone else.
How do we know he was defending the honour of his woman who was murdered by someone else? Gan says so. There's nothing to stop it being a complete lie.

Then we might just as well say that we won't bother to believe anything anyone says! Why on earth should he lie? What has he to gain? There's nothing to stop it being the truth!

Slushprodukt wrote:
Turnidus wrote:
So how do we read into this that he is a woman hater and wants to hurt them if left alone with them?
Because he goes off the rails when left alone with Jenna. And being left alone with Cally in Breakdown clearly doesn't do him any good.

How to we know he wouldn't have gone off the rails anyway. It just so happens that Jenna is left with him the first time - but it could just as easily have been any of them. If it had been Vila there at the time would we be asking if Gan was secretly gay or a man-hater? I doubt it. So why, just because it happens to be a female, should we read into it that he was a woman-hater?

Slushprodukt wrote:
You should read Liberation. It goes into much more detail about this and it holds water. And Boucher has said the Gan subtext was real, so it's not as if the Liberation writers were making it up, they were just defining where and how the Gan subtext crops up.

I've read quite a bit of Liberation - and just couldn't agree with their views.
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Futsie
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was watching Cygnus Alpha the other day and just noticed something in the dialogue...

When Kara and Laran are watching the London arriving with the new prisoners, she says to Laran: "Go to him and tell him new bounty has come from the darkness. I will go to the place of rebirth."

Then it cuts to the flight deck of the London, and Leylan says "Berthing sequence automatic committed."

So, birth and berth... Could just be a coincidence, or could be that the writer subconsciously used one of the words after using the other. But I like the idea that it's an example of the Cygus religion appropriating language, or changing something scientific and technical into a spiritual idea for its own ends...
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Mary Lou Jensen



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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I just go back to the conversation between Turnidus and Slushprodukt for a moment (not wanting to stir up bad feelings and stuff or anything) but I must say I agree with Turnidus this time BUT as a what if scenario it's an interesting idea.

Can I ask - was Liberation a fan product or a professional book - either way I hope none of this was presented as fact merely as speculation.

Futsie wrote:
I was watching Cygnus Alpha the other day and just noticed something in the dialogue...

When Kara and Laran are watching the London arriving with the new prisoners, she says to Laran: "Go to him and tell him new bounty has come from the darkness. I will go to the place of rebirth."

Then it cuts to the flight deck of the London, and Leylan says "Berthing sequence automatic committed."

So, birth and berth... Could just be a coincidence, or could be that the writer subconsciously used one of the words after using the other. But I like the idea that it's an example of the Cygus religion appropriating language, or changing something scientific and technical into a spiritual idea for its own ends...


Or maybe the writer consciously used the words - after all everyone on the planet were either sent there or were born from prisoners sent there, maybe after so many years the language was just changed to make it more in favour of a religious cult. How more evocative is a 'place of rebirth' than a 'berthing port' for a space ship?
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thunda



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't figure out how the Liberator's teleporter works. It's sophisticated enough to beam someone from space down to a planet that's revolving, orbiting, vibrating, taking into consideration dust, insects, wind, bacteria, gases, and who knows what else you could materialize into, but there's no failsafe to keep from being teleported beyond the teleporter's range.
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dave



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If coordinates are specified in the middle of space then what else should it do? There are many occasions when you may want to send someone or something into space (its faster than the airlock). I still don't understand why he exploded though...

Also the Liberator was a very complex beast - it probably did have a safety system but there could easily be an override.
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white afro in space



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I daresay that 'being out of teleport range' is indeed a fail-safe for being teleported out of teleport range. The range exists as a limit that cannot be surpassed, hence there is no risk of the teleport accidentally exceeding the range. Being teleported to an unintended location within teleport range is another matter.

Vargas exploding (a sign he may not have become a god, but we as viewers certainly thanked god at the time) depicts the notion that human bodies would explode in the vacuum of space, given that atmospheric pressure prevents non-curry related bodily explosions while on earth. That the explosion looks like a mechanical (smoky) explosion rather than a bodily (gore) explosion is down to the show's budget constraints.
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thunda



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dave wrote:
If coordinates are specified in the middle of space then what else should it do? There are many occasions when you may want to send someone or something into space (its faster than the airlock). I still don't understand why he exploded though...

Also the Liberator was a very complex beast - it probably did have a safety system but there could easily be an override.

I was going by what Avon said to Jenna when for some reason she asks about teleport range:

JENNA What would happen if you teleported somebody beyond the maximum range?

AVON I would imagine that they would appear momentarily in space, and then that their atoms would be scattered to the solar winds.


Now that raises another question of how the smeg (sorry, but every time I see or hear the word curry I think of Red Dwarf ) did Blake know how to work the teleport?

I watch this episode over and over just to hear one line, "We lose it all."
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