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Episode D11: Orbit
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Mr Love
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhiannon wrote:
Your big ? is excellent.
I never thought of it!
I did wonder why they all did not make a more serious attempt at
trapping Servalan and killing her. Unless it was some awful sort of
game they wanted to keep in tandem with the terrible boredom of
space and base... Maybe it wasn't in Jackie Pearce contract


Thank your Rhiannon but I must admit that I believe I picked it up from Fan Fic commentary ???

The principal reason I can see for not exposing her was perhaps to wait, let her reestablish a power base and then use her to divide the Federation by exposing her later.

Or maybe she was right to view Avon not as an enemy but rather as "... a future friend" ?

In any case, these kinds of questions and issues are a big part of what keeps B7 interesting.
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inge



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe if Servalan had fallen so far out with her Federation that she had to disguise herself, she should have considered joining the rebels.
Nah! That would never happen!
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Picard
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Joined: 16 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She may have been compeled to join the rebilion if only for lust for power i.e only for a short time untill she got back to position of power within the Fedaration i.e. useing the identity Sleer.
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inge



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would makke for some interesting episodes especially where Avon was concerned.
Would he kill her if he thought she betrayed him?
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Valentine
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inge
Quote:
It would makke for some interesting episodes especially where Avon was concerned.


Definitely!!!

Inge
Quote:
Would he kill her if he thought she betrayed him?


He certainly wanted to kill her but, didn't which, is a mystery because, didn't have problems killing anyone else.

The dialogue regarding spoken between Avon and, whilst, in the shuttle hinted at possible other hidden feelings regarding her. Avon was wary of -YET - at the same time most like attracted to although, he didn't exactly want to admit that to the rest of the crew or, perhaps not even to himself.

Mind you, an Avon- alliance would certainly have been interesting and, dangerous but, for which, one???
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Last edited by Valentine on Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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inge



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one of the pivotal moments in the series was in the basement when he was forced to kill Anna. Servalan was a witness to the scene and saw that Avon was vulnerable when it concerned people he cared about.

Maybe that is why she was able to manipulate Avon in Terminal.

From Avon's point of view he blamed Servalan, partly for that fiasco, as she knew who Bartholomew was.

He had oppotunity to kill her in Gold, but didn't.
He should have known she would cross him.
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Mr Love
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valentine wrote:

The dialogue regarding spoken between Avon and, whilst, in the shuttle hinted at possible other hidden feelings regarding her. Avon was wary of -YET - at the same time most like attracted to although, he didn't exactly want to admit that to the rest of the crew or, perhaps not even to himself.


What do you think of the Avon-Servalan interaction in the episdoe "Death Watch" ?
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Mr Love
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

inge wrote:
I think one of the pivotal moments in the series was in the basement when he was forced to kill Anna. Servalan was a witness to the scene and saw that Avon was vulnerable when it concerned people he cared about.

Maybe that is why she was able to manipulate Avon in Terminal.

From Avon's point of view he blamed Servalan, partly for that fiasco, as she knew who Bartholomew was.


In a way, the type of relationship he had with Anna also caused this fiasco since she drew her gun because she felt if he found out the truth he would have killed her. Perhaps, if she had felt he'd forigve her, she would not have so acted ?

Perhaps, if the Liberator crew had had a stun setting on their guns, this kind of fiasco could have been avoided completely ?

inge wrote:

He had oppotunity to kill her in Gold, but didn't.
He should have known she would cross him.


Perhaps, if Avon had booby-trapped the money case, he could have blown Servalan up ? Beyond that what do you see ?

In any case, she had him too worried about figuring out if she was involved and avoiding any trap from her. I think this is why he failed to see the money game. Servalan, in this episode, is truly restored as the master manipulator (after the degrading Ben Steed gave her Harvest --even though some human desire is shown in her in Harvest). In Gold, she has a plan within a plan within a plan.

Avon detects the Keeler sub-plan and reasons she is behind him but because of that focus misses the money game.
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inge



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely!
Servalan was a masterful manipulator, she knew Avon's strengths and weaknesses and exploited them to the hilt.
It's a shame there was a disagreement in the last episode, Blake, otherwise I'm sure she would have played some part in GP rather than disappearing from the series.
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Cockroach Boy



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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watched this episode for the first time in a long while a few nights ago.

I have to admit, this is one that I've avoided watching for a long time because the chracter of Egrorian seemed to me altogether too typical of the homophobic stereotyping of gay chracters in SF - from the Baron in that godawful Dune novel (though homophobia isn't that book's worst failing, not by a very long and very tedious chalk) to Malcolm Hulke's disturbing characterisation of Professor Whitaker in The Dinosaur Invasion novelisation as a camp queen who 'real men' like Mike Yates ( ) consider beating up (those fans who write glowing articles about Hulke's supposed liberalism always seem to skip over that bit)

However (takes a deep breath) I think I was a bit harsh on Orbit in the past. The script treats Pinder's plight with some sympathy. He clearly still loves Egrorian -the scene where he touches his shoulder to try and comfort him is well done . Pinder's love for Egrorian is probably an emotional one - Egrorian is deliberate physically grotesque. Egrorian on the other hand one is only interested in Pinder when is 'a young strippling'.

Its notable the Egrorian is bi - he obviously fancies Servalan, practically drooling over - and it his 'hetrosexual' choice of her over Pinder that seals his fate.

I still find John Savidents peformance as Eagrorian far too camp. By introducing so many mincing manerisms to the character, he makes him seem like a refuge from 'Are You Being Served' rather than a ruthless egomaniac. Look at Dorian in Rescue and you have a bi villain who still poses is a threat and is interesting. Egrorian could have been a much better character if the peformance were toned down.

To be fair though, absolutely everyone seems to be going OTT here. Paul Darrow's peformance is much more mannered than usual and Jackie Pearce is at her most extravagent since 'Kairos'. By this stage, Servalan showing up was more or less given whenever the Federation was mentioned. The fact that Egrorian know who she is flags up the utter stupidity of the Sleer idea that Holmes had foisted on him in 'Traitor'.

Michael Keating is very good throughout. His fear at the end is genuinely upsetting - to see the 'likable rouge' trembling with terror is not pleasent. The crying scene might have been cut, but it is still written all over his face. People have tended to focus on Avon's 'You are always safe with me' line, but I find Vila telling him that he 'won't forget' the trip more interesting. Vila's has been traumatised by the experience and he will never be the same.

The sets on this one are very good, especialy the shuttle. Servalan doesn't look too much like a Shirley Basseytribute artist thank god but the less said about the make up on Egrorian the better.

An interesting scriptthat could have been better presented.
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Ensor13



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't seen this episode yet - is this the one with electrical device that fires out electric currents and kil;ls loads of federation guards?
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Valentine
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ensor13
Quote:
Haven't seen this episode yet - is this the one with electrical device that fires out electric currents and kil;ls loads of federation guards?


This is the episode where Avon stalks wanting to throw him of the shuttle craft !!!
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Cockroach Boy



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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The scenes with and Avon are the best thing about this episode. There's a wierd sort of parallel between Egrorian/Pinder and Avon /

In both cases, one side of the partnership bullies the other and ultimately decides he is disposable. If things had turned out different on GP, perhaps would have tried to take revenge on Avon as Pinder did?
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white afro in space



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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ensor13 wrote:
Haven't seen this episode yet - is this the one with electrical device that fires out electric currents and kil;ls loads of federation guards?


This sounds like Warlord - if you substitute fed guards for Betafarlians
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inge



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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were some great scenes between Avon and Vila in this episode, before their confrontation.
The Egorian/Pinder realtionship is an amusing if sadistic one, I don't find Egorian's acting OTT except for the part where he calls Servalan his "steel queen".
And even Servalan thinks he is OTT, then.
There are some interesting fanfics on Orbit on the Hermit site that are good reading.
I wrote my own version as well, because I didn't like the way that Avon caved in to Orac so quickly.
Avon, the genius, should ahev been able to think of an alternative, to killing Vila.
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