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Avon
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Picard
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Joined: 16 May 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inge wrote:
I don't believe that Avon was mentally ill in S4 as some have proposed.

More likely he was suffering from Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome which is common after extreme situations. He lost the Liberator, Cally, (not to mention all the loot on Liberator), and then Servalan tells him Blake is dead.

That's pretty extreme stress.


The fedaration shouln't have dressed in black but in white then!
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inge



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2004 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Rhiannon
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Avon Reply with quote

Steve Rogerson wrote:
The Avon we see on the London is very different to the Avon we see in season four, and his transformation is probably one of the most dramatic in the show. This cold, calculating man is staying with Blake for one reason, apparently, and that is he wants the Liberator. He was quite willing to abandon Blake on Cygnus Alpha and, if he didn't still need Jenna to pilot the ship at that point, I am sure he would have killed her to take the Liberator.

He was never interested in Blake's cause, but he did over the course of the first two seasons become interested in Blake. We see them in The Web suddenly working very close together and getting quite friendly - their discussion on the planet over the fate of the decimas being a good example.

How close they became, we can never know for sure, which is probably why it has become a major factor in fan fiction. We do know from Terminal that his feelings for Blake were well beyond the logical when we see how he is willing to risk everything on the off chance of finding him again. That it is he who ends up killing Blake is the ultimate irony.

But it should not have been unexpected. Avon by the fourth season was ranging from being seriously stressed out to bordering on mental illness. He had lost his direction and his purpose, and with it his reliance on logic. None of this is surprising given what he'd been through and made the character more real and dynamic. He was a tortured soul, which is probably why so many fans loved him.
The Avon in season 4 is different than the Avon in season one. Well of course the character
is evolving thanks to Paul Avon Darrow....Yet you are saying Avon was capable of murder due to a situation beyond his control which led to his
whacking the Visa Procurer...Okay then How could anyone know in
the early days if Avon was prone to psychopathic behaviour? This was learned behavior over time aka whack them before they whack us and
we will survive...
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The evolution of Avon was due to the writers and to script editor Chris Boucher. The point about what was said in Rumours that he had killed somebody was that he chose to lie to Jenna when he said he don't know if he could kill someone. There could be many reasons for this but I think the most likely was that he was revealing as little as possible to someone who at that point he didn't know well.

I don't believe Avon showed any psycopathic traits during the early parts of the show and I've never said he did, but that doesn't mean he is not capable of killing someone. All we know is that he had killed someone and chose to lie about it, which is perfectly understandable.

As to season four Avon, he did show symptoms of mental illness, but I agree with Inge that these could be stress related.
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Rhiannon
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Rogerson wrote:
In what way have I contradicted what I said in my first post? Genuinely confused.

And I don't hate Avon. I like Avon, he was one of the characters who made the show so entertaining.

Check my post before this one and it will answer in part.
I mean you no disrespect just trying to clarify your original
post! You cannot have it both ways The character did
indeed evolve over time. I never believed Avon was the
some made him out to be...Talk is cheap and young men brag,
because they are macho or afraid or any number of reasons
When it came right down to it Avon did not abandon them. Hell's
Bells! Avon never abandoned anyone except for very good reason.
Only his enemies, not his comrades.

"Orbit" was a difficult watch! Warts and all Avon was wrong to
consider disposing of Vila that way. From the beginning of that
well written episode character flaws were being displayed.. I sat
and watched that episode with Paul and Michael at a New Jersey
convention. I got the feeling they were very happy with the script...

Sreve I never understood why Orac was used as some sort of
distress call at the end! Would you like to try and fill in the blank?
I am talking about after they crashed on Gauda Prine...Did you
ever hear comment about that from the actors or others?

Glad you did not hate Avon I cannot understand the bad
feelings about Tarrant or Dayna from some fans...
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Valentine
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhiannon
Quote:
I never understood why Orac was used as some sort of distress call at the end...I am talking about after they crashed on Gauda Prine...


Could be to let know, a sort of signal aka "Outlaws tend not to send distress signals" or, merely as stated

ORAC: "I assume you have given some thought to how you will explain your presence here, not to mention my impersonation of an official distress beacon."

Avon "Just keep sending, Orac. I don't particularly want to spend the night out here."

ORAC: "You may have to. There is very little daylight left, and search parties are unlikely to operate in this terrain at night."

Avon "Stick to the distress beacon, Orac. When I want your impersonation of a pain, I'll let you know."

- because we don't really know IF Avon and, had made previous contact (aka the set-up scenario?)

We know that Avon was watching and, waiting for someone? Maybe when , "DAYNA" and, "SOOLIN" turned up unexpectedly.

The, Avon "I had no idea it was you, and it shouldn't have been" speech is also puzzling in that same context.

Also, why was so interested in investigating the crashed ship (did he know it was Avon's ship, etc?

Also, with regards to Avon lying to about previously having killed someone, etc.

I'm reminded of on of 's line's from "SPACE FALL" about Avon when is talking about Avon fixing the log and getting the crew to dump the rest of them in space, etc.

"The cold-hearted murdering b*** - let's kill him now before".

So, obviously knew that Avon had, already killed as, he was the one who introduced Avon saying, what he'd been caught trying to do, etc before we get to know more during "RUMOURS OF DEATH" via "SHRINKER".
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Last edited by Valentine on Tue May 25, 2004 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joolz
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll throw another bit in here.

What about Horizon, then? It was set up so that Everything In The World made it not only possible for Avon to leave the others, but the only logical thing to do. Did he do it? No he did not. At great personal risk he went down and rescued them. He even seemed glad to see them.

"So I'm not alone."

I think that despite his talk, Avon is human enough to become attached to people and to not want to be alone. Yes, by Horizon he knew them all much better and was less likely to leave them than at the beginning, but I'm not so conviced that he was totally willing to leave them on Cignus Alpha. I would submit that he made the suggestion for form's sake, knowing that Jenna wouldn't go along with it. He wouldn't actually have to do it. I agree that if Avon had really wanted to abandon the others and take the Liberator then, he would have done it. There are many ways a confident and clever man like him could have carried it off.

There are many, many examples of Avon's bark being worse than his bite.
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Steve Rogerson



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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think by the time we get to Horizon, the crew have bonded to a degree and Avon is included in that. I think the link between Avon and Blake has become quite strong (how strong is open to debate) and leaving him and the rest stranded is not an option.
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although Avon did not see Blake's idealism as a healthy option he played Devil's advocet throughout Series 1 & 2.

In STAR ONE Avon is trying to make him realise that what he is about to do could have huge repercussions.

He wasn't so much looking out for Blake, he was amost some kind of subconcious for him....and it worked both ways - they were equally opportsite in their views and opinions.

When Blake left The Liberator one side of the coin was lost and thats when things went downhill for Avon and the others.
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ORAC wrote:
Although Avon did not see Blake's idealism as a healthy option he played Devil's advocet throughout Series 1 & 2.

In STAR ONE Avon is trying to make him realise that what he is about to do could have huge repercussions.

He wasn't so much looking out for Blake, he was amost some kind of subconcious for him....and it worked both ways - they were equally opportsite in their views and opinions.

When Blake left The Liberator one side of the coin was lost and thats when things went downhill for Avon and the others.


Well put!
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You.
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Steve Rogerson



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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2004 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ORAC wrote:

When Blake left The Liberator one side of the coin was lost and thats when things went downhill for Avon and the others.


If Avon knew that, it could help to explain his obsession to get Blake back.
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Steve Rogerson



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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avon made it clear to Jenna in Cygnus Alpha that he was quite willing to abandon Blake for the wealth on the Liberator. By the time we reach Terminal, he is willing to risk everything on the hope that he can re-unite with Blake. The question is at what point did this change happen and why.
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When Avon realised that HE and the Liberator were the Federation targets. He and Servalan had never faced off against each other until Season 3.
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Steve Rogerson



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an escaped criminal who tried to rob a Federation bank, he was a federation target from the start.
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