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Episode D13: BLAKE
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject: Episode D13: BLAKE Reply with quote

Well, we couldn't really have an epiosde discussion without this little gem of an episode could we.

Did Avon set it all up...?
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Joolz
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question:

If Blake was testing new recruits to see if they were loyal to the Federation, why did Arlen telling Deva who Blake was make them trust her? Even if she seemingly thought him just a bounty hunter now, she did try to sell him out to the Federation. Did I miss something?
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joolz wrote:
I have a question:

If Blake was testing new recruits to see if they were loyal to the Federation, why did Arlen telling Deva who Blake was make them trust her? Even if she seemingly thought him just a bounty hunter now, she did try to sell him out to the Federation. Did I miss something?


No I don't think you did.

Blake is quite a complex story and there are many questions unanwered.

Why was ORAC sending out a beacon signal....to who?

Why did the gunships attack Scoprio?

Why didn't Blake tell tarrant what was really going on, he knew who he was?

Why were so many flyers entering the control centre?

Why did Avon hide ORAC before entering?

So many questions....
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Joolz
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Blake is quite a complex story and there are many questions unanwered.


Some things I could see some reason for, like

Quote:
Why was ORAC sending out a beacon signal....to who?


I thought Avon was trying to lure someone to him so that he could steal their flyer.


Quote:
Why did the gunships attack Scoprio?


It seemed like the Federation had the blockade in place for a while, maybe to trap people on the planet so the 'criminals' could be caught, and they just fire on anyone coming in. Isn't that how Blake says Jenna died?


Quote:
Why didn't Blake tell tarrant what was really going on, he knew who he was?


Well, that is the big question, isn't it? Silly Blake.


Quote:
Why were so many flyers entering the control centre?


Wasn't that the center of the bounty hunting opperation? They would be coming and going. It was never clear to me whether the rebels were pretending to be Federation or independent.


Quote:
Why did Avon hide ORAC before entering?


Actually, do we know that he did? When the crew enters the center ORAC simply isn't with them. No offense, but it is a bit bulky to carry around when raiding bases. For all we know they left it in the flyer in case of a quick getaway. (That's what they do in the story I'm writing, anyway )

Quote:
So many questions....


And so many possible answers. That's the fun of it!
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why was ORAC sending out a beacon signal....to who?


THIS WAS A POSSIBILITY BUT NEVER CONFIRMED


Quote:
Why did the gunships attack Scoprio?


BUT SCORPIO IS JUST A FREIGHT SHIP...WHY ATTACK SUPPLIES?


Quote:
Why didn't Blake tell tarrant what was really going on, he knew who he was?


YES, BLAKE WAS RATHER FOOLISH


Quote:
Why were so many flyers entering the control centre?


[B]YET WE SAW NO OTHER BOUNTY HUNTERS APART FROM THE ONE BLAKE SHOT AT THE BEGINNING HWO WAS AFTER ARLEN
.


Quote:
Why did Avon hide ORAC before entering?


AVON WOULD NEVER LEAVE ORAC WITHOUT CONSEALING IT FIRST - HE WAS TOO VALUABLE TO HIM
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inge



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 1158

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why, when Avon asked Blake "Have you betrayed me?" didn't Blake just say; ""Of course not!"
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I say...So many questions...!
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Janov Seldon



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 1687
Location: There - but I like it here

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my take.

The gunships are not Federation ships, but gunships from GP's own security services, and they are shooting down any ship that doesn't answer their hails. Slave tried to alert the crew to these, but ORAC told him to be silent, and hence they were shot down.

Blake testing Tarrant. Well, this is because Blake's been running for some years without the comfort and backing of the Liberator, and he's wily enough to realise that one plan that the Federation might come up with to get him runs something like this:

Take one Wanderer class planet hopper and give it false number plates, then crash it near Blake's hideout, with three Federation agents aboard that look very like Soolin, Tarrant and Dayna and brief them well enough with a cover story about what happened to the rest of his crew. Let him swallow th bait and he'll hopefully take them into his confidence. Ten seconds later, he's in the bag.

There's also the name. Tarrant. Blake had been betrayed twice by a man named Tarrant, so he was being cautious. Much has been made in fanfic about this name coincidence, but that's all I think it is.

Arlen. She was very surprised when she actually found Blake - why? She was actually looking for him. There had to be another reason for that and I think that's what she told Deva. I would reveal it here, but it's in the first episode of my PGP, so I'll keep schtum for now.

Avon hid Orac when they landed, somewhere near the flyer, but the others don't know where it is. The beacon was to get transport.

So many flyers. Klynn didn't say that, she said something about transports crossing each other. I think it was something about too much aerial activity. Obvious answer - drop ships bringing in federation troops and/or ORAC feeding wrong traces to the radar.
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>CarnÚll<
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've Never Read Anyone's Oppion On Why Avon Shot Blake So If I'm Repeating Your Views I Do Appologise.

In My Oppion, of Course All The Stress of Anna, Cally, The Liberator etc Had All Pilled Up Into The State of S4 Avon.

But Let Me Take You Through The Immortal Words.

"Have You Betrayed Us? Have You Betrayed Me!!"
"Tarrant Doesn't Understand"
"Neither Do I"
"I Set This All Up"
"YES"
BANG

Okay, But First Before I Psychostrategise That, Let's Go Back Further, too Tarrant Escaping.

Tarrant Gets too Avon "He Sold Us Avon... Even You"

Now Avon's Stressed Filled At This Point, On The Point of Breaking, He's Been With Tarrant A While, & There's Also The Crash Eariler Where They Bonded, Most People Would Say These Are Huge Factors, But I Think In Avon's State of Mind, The Words And Alarm Would Have Been Trigger Enough

Trigger Enough For What? I Personally Think Here Avon Was Battling With Himself... He Realised He Had Become Blake... Exactly What He Despised From The Beginning.

"Have You Betrayed Us? Have You Betrayed Me?"

Here He's Still In The Shock He's Become Blake, He's Become A Freedom Fighter Just Like He Absoutely Hated.

"Tarrant Doesn't Understand"

We Know Blake Likes People too Just Accept His Reasons Without Explainations.

"Neither Do I"

Avon Comtemplating What He Was & What He's Become.

"I Set All This Up"

And Here It Hits Avon, Blake Has Become Him, And Sold Him Out too The Federation, Just Like Avon Would Have, They Have Reversed Roles.

"YES!!!"

This Pushes Avon Over The Edge & He Fires, 3-Times Just too Make Sure He Killed Blake For What He Had Done.


Then Arlen Comes In, Avon Is Intranced In Everything That's Just Happened.

He Hears Everything Arlen Says And Realises That Blake Hadn't Set Him Up, But Somehow After His Discovery It Just Didn't Matter, He Was Now Completely Over The Edge.

He Listens too His Crews Screams of Death, And When The Guards Circle Him, Like A Madman He Challenges Them...

Not Even S4 Avon Would Have Done That

So There's My Take On It, What Do You Think?
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inge



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 1158

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may have hit the nail on the head.
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WO WO WO....back up a little here.

Avon has become Blake...?

Blake was never a cold hearted killer, Blake would never have killed Plaxton...AND CERTAINLY WOULDN'T HAVE TRIED TO SACRIFICE VILA in Orbit, no sorry, I don't buy this, they had not reversed roles in my opinion and Avon was certainly not an idealist in any of Series 4.

Quote:
He Hears Everything Arlen Says And Realises That Blake Hadn't Set Him Up, But Somehow After His Discovery It Just Didn't Matter, He Was Now Completely Over The Edge.

He Listens too His Crews Screams of Death, And When The Guards Circle Him, Like A Madman He Challenges Them...


Avon is so much in shock that Blake may have set HIM up that he is oblivious to what Arlene says or the crew being killed and they certainly didn't scream!

It is only when the alarm stops and the guards have surrounded him that Avon realises what has happened and can't do anything about it so it's a case of "I killed you - we'll die together".

His final act of raising the gun was TYPICAL AVON...he would never have just allowed himself to be killed, he'd try to take as many gaurds out as he could before he was dead!
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now Avon's Stressed Filled At This Point, On The Point of Breaking, He's Been With Tarrant A While, & There's Also The Crash Eariler Where They Bonded, Most People Would Say These Are Huge Factors, But I Think In Avon's State of Mind, The Words And Alarm Would Have Been Trigger Enough


Avon didn't trust anyone and I certainly don't believe that he would take Tarrant's words over Blake's...it was just the way that Blake handled it.

If Blake had said something like "Oh shut up Tarrant, Avon it's good to see you" it would have changed things ever so slightly but given them more room to talk.

If that had happened I think you'll probably have seen Blake and Avon standing back to back raising their guns to the guards in unison.
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>CarnÚll<
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Didn't Mean Avon Actually Became Blake Himself, But He Had Become The Freedom Fighter Blake Was, Look At Orbit, Warlord & Blake, Avon Was Trying too Unite Planets & Take The Federation.

He'd Given Up On Wealth After Gold It Seems, He Had Become A True Freedom Fighter, of Which He Originally Hated.


As For Screams, I Meant The "EG"s & "AVON" of His Crews Death.

Quote:
Avon didn't trust anyone and I certainly don't believe that he would take Tarrant's words over Blake's


That's What I Was Saying, It Wasn't Because Tarrant Said Them, It Was Because They Were Said, Avon Was On Breaking Point At The Time, The Thought of Those Words Was Merely Enough.

Quote:
If Blake had said something like "Oh shut up Tarrant, Avon it's good to see you" it would have changed things ever so slightly but given them more room to talk.

If that had happened I think you'll probably have seen Blake and Avon standing back to back raising their guns to the guards in unison.


Of Course, Avon Wouldn't Have Been Pushed Over The Edge, Infact Uniting With Blake May Have Kept Him Sane, Sorta Like Rimmer In Red Dwarf Keeps Lister From Going Insane Because He's The Opposite, Blake Would Have Kept Avon In Check.

Quote:
I don't buy this, they had not reversed roles in my opinion


They Had Not Reversed Roles, Avon Had Become A Freedom Fighter Which He Despised, And Who Made Him Do That In His Oppion? Blake.
As For Blake Becoming Avon I Did Not Say That, I Said Avon Had Thought Blake Had, Because He Sold Them Out, Something Avon Would Have Done Originally.

Quote:
It is only when the alarm stops and the guards have surrounded him that Avon realises what has happened and can't do anything about it so it's a case of "I killed you - we'll die together".

His final act of raising the gun was TYPICAL AVON...he would never have just allowed himself to be killed, he'd try to take as many gaurds out as he could before he was dead!


Even S4 Avon Wouldn't Have Been So Stupid, He Would Have Tried too Cut A Deal, Or Tried too Escape From The Prison They Held Him, Or If He Was too Be Excuted There, Then He Would Have Tried Something A Little More Smarter Then Shoot Till I'm Dead. I Believe It Was Him Now Completely Over The Edge That Did This, He Lost His Judgement Because He Just Didn't Care Anymore.[/quote]
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ORAC
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carnell you are missing the entire point of Warlord and Blake - Avon didn't want to be a freedom fighter or figurehead...that's why he was looking for one.

Avon wanted out full stop but couldn't until he had found a figurehead.
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Mr-Stabby



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2004 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, infact proof of ORACs statement can be taken from a line from BLAKE:

Soolin: You needed a figurehead and he was it...or am i wrong?

Avon: You're right, but figureheads aren't too difficult to come by

I rest my case your honour
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